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    About WikiLeaks

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    Poll

    Good or bad?

    [ 3 ]
    23% [23%] 
    [ 1 ]
    8% [8%] 
    [ 1 ]
    8% [8%] 
    [ 8 ]
    61% [61%] 

    Total Votes: 13

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    About WikiLeaks

    Post by Guest on Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:27 am

    I myself am undecided on this topic.

    I know a fair bit about, see the panic it's causing and believe that the worst of it should be known by the rest of the world.

    But then, there are the more minor things that only cause harm and no good at all.

    What do you all think?


    Last edited by Redline on Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Eggbert
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Eggbert on Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:48 am

    What you just said really. If they are trying to post just about any information leaks they can find then I doubt most of them will actually be doing much good.

    Then again, I'm not sure if they really do just post any leaks they find.
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Kromel on Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:23 am

    I personally think WikiLeaks should be destroyed! Now, I am one that believes that government should be open to the people, but DAMN! There are reasons for state secrets; if the world was a kind, and gentle place, we wouldn't need them.

    What Wikileaks have done is fuel hatred and make delicate matters much worse. It makes peaceful negotiations and policies MUCH harder.

    I know the goal of Wikileaks is to bring responsibility to governments and other organizations, but what it is doing is completely ill-responsible.

    Sometimes, just giving tid bits of information to bring light to a situation is MUCH better than giving complete details.

    Not my 2 cents, but more like 2 dollars.


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    Koblentz
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Koblentz on Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:10 pm

    Organizations like Wikileaks only spring up when airtight secrecy removes the need for our government to be accountable to the public for its actions. The media blackout in the wars we're involved with is irresponsible and allows all kinds of crimes to go undocumented.

    While I don't agree with all of its methods, I applaud Wikileaks for trying to expose some of the nasty things our military and government have been involved with overseas for the past decade. Hopefully those in power will think twice before they destabilize entire regions of the globe and systematically violate human rights.
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by ephie on Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:27 pm

    I don't know why it would be a bad thing. Don't do illegal/corrupt shit if you don't want to be called out on it. If we let things slip by it's a slope to much worse things.


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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Tator Tot on Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:55 pm

    I'm with Kobe on this; I don't agree with everything they do, but they're not horrible people either.
    It's good that we have people sending out this information. As the people need to know so they can't plead ignorance when they don't hold their government responsible.
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Koblentz on Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:00 pm

    ephie wrote:I don't know why it would be a bad thing. Don't do illegal/corrupt shit if you don't want to be called out on it. If we let things slip by it's a slope to much worse things.
    Well, a lot of the criticism comes from the fact that Wikileaks didn't redact anything on this last batch of communications it released. That means a lot of people who are cooperating in secret with the United States in completely benign capacities are in danger of being identified. People are worried that, for example, diplomatic and business contacts that the US has inside Iran could be "purged".

    It's a risk, for sure, which is why I said I don't agree with all of Wikileaks' methods.
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by ephie on Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:34 am

    bbc.co.uk wrote:The website of whistle-blowing organisation Wikileaks has been shut down by the company providing it with its .org web address.
    Sauce.
    Apparently Amazon took down Wikileaks for a ToS violation, but in reality, it's allowed to take down whatever it wants when it wants, sadly. I know they may not have had the best ways of going about getting the documents, and I know that they may have some classified stuff that's important and what not, but before you put pressure on a website to be taken down, shouldn't you try and communicate with them across ALL channels? Sigh


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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Koblentz on Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:19 pm

    Even better, half the urls listed on the page that article links to are non-functioning. None of the normal TLDs (wikileaks.com, .net, .org, .mobi) are working, and only one of the mirrors is directing properly. It's a good thing that the IP address (http://213.251.145.96/) still works and some of the European national TLDs are working, otherwise there would be no way to access the site.
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by ephie on Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:22 pm

    I watched the Daily Show this morning, and saw that Sarah Palin had "tweeted" that we should shut down those treasonous people. Really? /me sighs.


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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Guest on Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:04 am

    WikiLeaks released "a secret list of critical sites" of the US.

    Discuss.

    EDIT: Yesterday, my step father was reading the paper and called Assange a "white knight" for exposing "these bastards"

    I disagree Sigh

    No white knight is going to blackmail the government into not arresting him.

    EDIT #2: Also, does anyone find these accusations of rape to be just a little convenient?


    Last edited by Redline on Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Wildman on Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:16 am

    Wikileaks is like a 5 year old child it tries to get away with as much as it can before its gets a timeout not to mention at the age of 5 you don't think about the consequences to your actions. Wikileaks releasing sensitive US documents that put people in danger i.e. America or those that work for the government. Somethings were meant to stay secret. I am not saying that the government should do whatever it wants. I know a couple documents that were released were about civilians being shot at. The government kept that a secret because the actions of a few individuals gets put on the government and brings down morale. Honestly Wikileaks releasing such sensitive stuff does more harm than good. It could honestly create chaos within the nation or cause valuable allies to turn on us, then who is in trouble? Now i respect everyone's opinion on this matter as it is an important one. I will just leave this 2 cents of mine and be done with the topic given its sensitivity.
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    WikiLeaks and Anonymous

    Post by Coffin Dodger on Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:32 am

    WikiLeaks, anonymous...

    Fuck you and thank you for makeing my job that much harder.

    Not all information should be shared...ever. If you can slightly agree with that statement by recognizing that there's a chance there's a single piece of information certain people shouldn't know for the safety of military personnel or civilians all over the world. Then you already disagree with anonymous.

    There's a difference between our 1st amendment and absolute information freedom (which anonymous just preached in that lovely video).

    one gives the right to express ourselves and to state our opinions with out persecution.

    the other is anarchy.

    there's currently an irregular line about what information the public needs to know. Some information seems almost trivial to the public and other information is down right deadly.

    Anyone who cares only about total information freedom does not care about people's lives or does not understand it's effects.

    (MOVED!! and um yeah...i know i stuck my foot in my mouth here as well, but this is a subject i live with daily.)
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Koblentz on Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:53 am

    Coffin Dodger (December 15th 2010, 1:32 am) wrote:There's a difference between our 1st amendment and absolute information freedom (which anonymous just preached in that lovely video).
    Actually, Anonymous was talking solely about destructive secrecy, where governments, private corporations, and non-governmental organizations keep information hidden to cover up abuses of human rights. Their argument isn't that everyone should know every single thing in the world; rather, it's that secrecy should be limited when it allows institutions to get away with doing disgusting things.
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Exxy on Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:10 pm

    Redline wrote:EDIT #2: Also, does anyone find these accusations of rape to be just a little convenient?

    It is speculated that it is put in by a "anti-Assange-group" in sweden. This is supported that the majority of the women have some sort of connection to the group, some vaguer than others.
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by ephie on Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:23 pm

    Koblentz wrote:
    Coffin Dodger (December 15th 2010, 1:32 am) wrote:There's a difference between our 1st amendment and absolute information freedom (which anonymous just preached in that lovely video).
    Actually, Anonymous was talking solely about destructive secrecy, where governments, private corporations, and non-governmental organizations keep information hidden to cover up abuses of human rights. Their argument isn't that everyone should know every single thing in the world; rather, it's that secrecy should be limited when it allows institutions to get away with doing disgusting things.
    I typed something similar to this last night but it died. Sad

    Also, I was going to mention that free speech is just that; the freedom to say what you want. The first amendment gives us the right to say what we want, and if that speech happens to be leaked information about government cover-ups, it is that person's prerogative. Also, I believe one of the big things was about one of the five or so big banks in America and some possible illegal activity. I want that to be known, sadly. Oh

    In short, we don't have to cover up EVERYTHING that our government does, contrary to popular belief, and if you listen to Sarah Palin, you're pretty much dumb. Sleepy


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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Tator Tot on Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:34 pm

    @Red, never saw your edits till now but:
    1.) There is never such a thing as a white knight as no one will ever have a disconnect with a situation where there actions do not have a result on their lives.

    Either way; Wikileaks is not filled with good or bad people, as the nature that they are imposing is anarchy which can't be good or bad.

    2.) Yeah rape/sexual harassment charges are a little convenient. Then again, they tried this against The Pirate Bay as well and members of the Pirate Party as well.

    @Coffin, repression leads to revolution and thus to anarchy. Apparently no one in a major world changing position took the time to read a history book. Right now we're almost repeating the French Revolution except in a more "modern" way.

    Though you should not take their actions so personally. More so since men & women from different countries in different branches of armed services have contributed to Wikileaks.
    Actions they are taking are not derived to be personal in any nature.

    It's a controversial issue right now on how far they should go, but like I said before, it's hard to tell what is the right and what is wrong in terms of censorship.

    Also, what Kobe & Ephe said; but I've repeated myself enough that you don't need to read the same thing a third time.
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by ericxboba on Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:32 pm

    I would just like to add that Wikileaks is not necessarily a "whistle blowing" organization because they don't just expose specific cases of wrong doing to the public. It HAS done this on a few occasions but for the most part has published private and classified information. That doesn't mean it is a "whistle blowing" organization.

    As for my opinion...I'm not sure. I think the bad outweighs the good at this point.
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by ephie on Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:25 pm

    That's a very valid point, but not one that I think diminishes in any way what Wikileaks does. I completely disagree; I very much think the good outweighs the bad. I'm tired of being in the dark and we NEED to know and there needs to be more transparency. That's not to say I HAVE to know what our military plans are, or something sensitive of that nature. But wrongdoings, yes. Absolutely yes.


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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by ericxboba on Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:07 pm

    ephie wrote:That's a very valid point, but not one that I think diminishes in any way what Wikileaks does. I completely disagree; I very much think the good outweighs the bad. I'm tired of being in the dark and we NEED to know and there needs to be more transparency. That's not to say I HAVE to know what our military plans are, or something sensitive of that nature. But wrongdoings, yes. Absolutely yes.

    I agree. I am all for more transparency. I didn't mean that it diminishes what wikileaks does...just making sure that people know it doesn't just publish information of wrongdoing that has been kept secret.

    I don't have much of a problem with the bad coming to the surface because...well...duh! It should. It doesn't matter to me how it comes out as long as it does. But there is a lot of stuff that doesn't need to be made known because it isn't bad and it is classified for a good reason. I think it is a very thin line that is being walked on right now and I can't really make up my mind one way or the other.

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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by ephie on Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:52 pm

    Ah, right. I've got you there. Either way it goes it's always seeming to be a slippery slope.


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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Exxy on Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:09 pm

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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Coffin Dodger on Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:33 pm

    I'm not going to go much father than saying, yes Tot, i take this personally. It's a soldier who acted unprofessionally and slashed another black mark on my profession.

    Just as well, other countries' soldiers are the other countries' problems, but that doesn't stop the fact that they have also embarrassed their branch and their fellow soldiers.
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Tator Tot on Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:18 am

    Less you forget Coffin, the US has one of the VERY few militaries where it is defined in your responsibilities to protect the country from Internal and External threats which originate from any origin.
    To which in due right, you are a civilian controlled military where your job is not to worry about the Government but to worry about the people.

    I care to disagree about anyone acting unprofessionally. This is not a choice of what's right and wrong as their is no moral way to judge this. They are acting on a decision which they deem right.

    You're just not looking beyond your scope of the situation.

    I can see why you would be upset; but blindly following your instincts without first trying to grasp all aspects of the situation is just a bad idea.
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    Re: About WikiLeaks

    Post by Koblentz on Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:33 am

    ericxboba wrote:I would just like to add that Wikileaks is not necessarily a "whistle blowing" organization because they don't just expose specific cases of wrong doing to the public.
    Nah, they're not a whistle-blowing organization as much as a power-jamming organization. They make it difficult for power to operate the way it has traditionally, behind closed doors and in secrecy. The overarching goal is to make everyone in a position of power to think twice before doing something reprehensible lest the world find out.

    Coffin Dodger wrote:I'm not going to go much father than saying, yes Tot, i take this personally. It's a soldier who acted unprofessionally and slashed another black mark on my profession.
    No one is gonna agree with me, but I think this guy is a hero. He had a moral epiphany -- the US is clearly in the wrong and should be stopped -- and used his position to act in accordance with his new values. By any definition of the word, acting in according to your values and suffering as a result is heroic.

    If only more Americans had the same moral courage, the world would be a better place -- that's referring to the millions who opposed the wars and all the terrible things the US has done since 9/11 and basically shrugged their shoulders about everything.

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